Do anyone else find this highly amusing?

Someone (I won't put the name in to avoid getting in trouble) claimed those:





-It's a misconception that "pure MMA" can easily win a fight if they take someone trained in stand up martial arts to the ground.





-In a real streetfight, if you try to apply lock, your opponent can ram their finger in your throat or rip your wind pipe out.





I would like to know what other thinks of this. I'll post my opinion when I'm done laughing so hard.

Do anyone else find this highly amusing?
Wow Sifu Shaun, you sound like a true bad ***.... lol.





How many eyes have you plucked out? How many windpipes have you crushed?





While I do believe in the effectiveness of certain strikes, certainly eye gouges and wind pipes strikes are incredibly effective in a self defense scenario, they also require a certain element of surprise. Not to mention the human body's reaction towards protecting vital targets.





What you fail to realize while "in their lock" is the very arm you are eye snatching with would be broken already.





MMA, or for that matter any individual with a variety of skill vs. someone who is specialized is at an advantage in a "fight". They have more weapons at their disposal, more techniques to bring to the table. You need to know how to handle yourself from any situation.





I laugh my *** off at people talking about "real streetfights" and then speaking on some sort of authority about techniques they have never done in reality.





If someone is a decent grappler vs. someone with no grappling knowledge, then the whole chance to "grab throats" and "eye plucks" aren't there because your body is controlled.





I realize guys like Sifu Shaun have "grapplers" come in and ask "what would you do" but these grapplers are guys who what, took a year of Judo or something? Huge difference between someone who doesn't have techniques mastered, the same as a guy with one year of Kung Fu doesn't represent Kung Fu well.





In a streetfight situation, an armlock usually is a dynamic break. Not holding on until someone gives up. There is no holding on and waiting for someone to react, it is a simple and quick.





Maybe once upon a time when I was 15 having studied Ninjitsu and exotics I would think that eye gouges and attacking soft tissue targets would always ensure me a victory.





However, after being controlled like a rag doll sissy beotch by a Judo guy, I realized that maybe I should round out my skills.





Also, watching Royce Gracie handle world class strikers easily helped change my mind. That and watching Remco Parduel destroy Orlando Weit (bad *** muay thai kick boxer).





Which also goes against the whole "Well an experienced striker would handle a pure grappler because the grappler can't get past the striking..." argument proving it to be B.S.





Another poster nailed it on the head.





It isn't like the eye gouge/throat punching thing isn't available to the MMAist, in fact it is and they are in a position of control, and they have just as much experience using it (meaning none).





I have been in a ton of "real streetfights" which really just consists of dealing with drunk people, or people who want to challenge authority or prove they are a bad ***. I have had knives pulled on me, bottles thrown at me, hit with bottles etc.





I have had plenty of people go for the eyes and the groin, and have watched what happened to people who do that. I have watched many Law Enforcement officers handle these type of people with ruthless efficiency.





I have seen my buddy beating the living hell out of a guy who actively had his balls in his hands squeezing for dear life. (btw, that escalates the charge and authorized response to a life or limb situation).





As effective as you may think striking someone to the groin is, or gouging someone's eyes, the reality is that you are on your back flailing for something while being controlled, and probably getting the living hell beat ouf of you.





Yes, even the most highly stand up guy is indeed rendered ineffective when on his back. Going for eyes, balls, and throat isn't really a viable option as you have no leverage and your limbs are controlled, then when you reach up and extend that arm for your vicious eyeball pluck, the joint gets hyper extended in a blink of an eye and you lose your control over that limb and your body starts into shock because of the pain.





That is if you aren't being choked into unconsciousness already with the sweet science of depleting your brain of oxygen.





Yes Ninedemons, I find that whole argument incredibly amusing and unrealistic. People who think they know "real streetfighting" and how it goes, with no rules and biting and clawing, don't realize that it doesn't really go that way, and that while you are going for eyes and balls, your opponent has just as much opportunity to do the same to you.





If you can't practice a move full speed, on a resisting individual, and then on a resisting stranger through competetion, you will never truly hone a technique.
Reply:How is Sifu a coward? This is your forum, not his. Report It

Reply:LOL, I love these arguments!! Of course mma has a rule set. We don't want anyone to die or be permanently injured. What gets me is that mma critics believe we can't eye gouge or grab a throat for some reason. As if they are in the dojo practicing that with such aliveness all day, lol. In reality, mma practitioners are far more prepared for using dangerous techniques because we already practice with resisting opponents and we know how to efficiently apply locks and holds . Do these people actually think we can't stick a finger in their eye from full mount or fish hook from side mount? We're already good at getting position, something these 'critics' are afraid to even practice.\


ALSO, I work in a level 14 group home, meaning THE worst kids around. I've had kids tear at my skin, grab my throat and all kinds of crap, with TRUE intent. And with their mental disabilities, adrenaline levels are maxed out, so I'm not dealing with weaklings. Out of all this, the worse I've gotten is a few bad welts and a cut or two. A couple of people have been bitten, and this can be very dangerous, but even while being bitten, these people were able to subdue the kids (18-19 year olds) and suffered minimal injury. In this job, we can't hurt the kids, but in a self defense situation, people can and do bite back. So yeah, I guess people just need to watch a little less 'Master Killer' and look at what really works.
Reply:Glad I got a chance to respond, although this belongs on a message board where you can debate (correct the incorrect) statements.





1- How the **** can you rip out someone's windpipe while bieng armbarred?





A REAL armbar not a crappling one? Outside of armbaring the incredible hulk this is not possible.





obviously there are rules in MMA, so we don't have a bunch of broken armed zombies walking around.





2- One of the biggest benefits of grappling is that it can be trained at a more intense level because while the pain/break is not inflicted immediately but there is still little or nothing the guy can do and still has the opportunity to tap, but still can practice intensively. Striking poses the problem of safety while training. any "eye"poke or whatnot is a desperation move and easier to train against than to train. you should not be in a position to do it, if you were, then a punch would be able to break an armbar as a guaranteed defence, so what makes you think pinching or eye poking will even reach?





Ridiculous.
Reply:Human ignorance has no limits. Someone trained in ground fighting has a clear advantage over a stand up fighter if the fight goes to the ground. Someone trained purely or mostly in ground fighting is unlikely to survive the stand up fight in good enough condition to be effective on the ground against a well trained stand up fighter. Those well trained in both have a big advantage.


A properly applied joint lock renders its victim incapable of responding.
Reply:Buddy... you know more than anyone that on these question boards, idiots run a muck. Anyone who uses the defense that ripping a throat out will work is a moron. Sure poking an eye out or ramming a testie up into their gut is gonna mess em up.... but lets see you do that while an RNC is put on you!
Reply:Go to your local ju-jitsu class, and try that crap you will be in for a surprise, it is not that easy, try getting out of a real armbar, or chke hold, let alone ripping a throat out pr poking out an eye.
Reply:You'd have to grab really, really, really hard to rip out someone's windpipe. Breaking it is easier, and quicker if we are to assume this person was talking about defending one's self in a life and death situation. There are easier things to do to get out of a lock- stamp some feet, kick the shins/groin/etc. Whatever. The MMA comment- most of those guys have had YEARS of training to be that good. Most of them are also very smart people. Rich Franklin was a math teacher, and Chuck Liddel was an accountant, if I remember right. They're probably smart enough to discern the difference between cage fighting, and fighting for their lives, something I think that person making the comment didn't think about.
Reply:even someone trained in solely in stand up is going to have trouble with anyone who has an event decent shot or decent takedowns.





let's face it, 'pure mma' is a false phrase, because MMA by very definition is not pure any MA, but it's a mashed up combination of what should be multiple effective and alive martial arts. acting like an MMA guy doesn't know enough stand up to be able to defend himself till he goes for a takedown is idiotic to a ridiculous degree. If you are a pure stand up guy, you are going to get taken down by an equally skilled MMA'er and then you will get submitted or GnP'ed.





I'm not even going to justify the whole windpipe thing with an answer, except to say that if anyone decided to try that **** on me, I'm popping their elbow and then mounting for GnP.
Reply:The ripping skin with finger part sounds like something out of Kill Bill, lolz.
Reply:The skin is actually not that hard to break, and going for the windpipe or eyes isn't just "scratching." I study Praying Mantis Kung Fu. I doubt you'll see "real" Praying Mantis fighters in a MMA fight, because about every third or fourth move we learn is practiced one way, but the real way to do it involves gouging out the eyes, spearing the throat, or attacks to the groin. We train very carefully, but mistakes have happened in sparing, and trust me, it doesn't take a whole lot to the wind pipe to put you out of the fight.





My brother practices a groundfighting style, and I pratice a stand-up style. I'll admit, the trips we learn in Praying Mantis aren't all that effective against my brother, mostly because he simply doesn't care if he's on the ground or not, but it's also not as simple as if I'm down, I'm out. I haven't lost to him yet, although I wouldn't say I win more often than it's a draw either.





I've met several groundfighters who thought they were all that, and went to show me something and asked what I'd do, and I asked them, "How serious is it?" When I showed them how simply I could pluck their eyes from their head in their lock, or how easily a kick could reach their groin, or how exposed their throat or some other body part was, their complaint was always, "But that's against the rules!" or "But that's fighting dirty!" Go ahead, complain about rules and dirty in a streetfight, and see what it gets you.





You fall into the same trap so many people do: you act like you think this set of rules gives the best example of what would happen in a fight with no rules. Sorry, that doesn't work. From what I've seen, MMA rules are set up to prefer groundfighters. That's fine, because that's what most MMAs focus on. It's like Kickboxing rules favor kickers, and Judo rules favor grapplers. Here's something that shouldn't suprise you: the sparing rules in my school favor those with good ballance who can control your opponent and hand strikes. There have to be sparing rules, without them, people die or get seriously injured. And the rules you give are going to focus on what you teach.





The truth of the matter is, in a "real streetfight," even your most adhearant stand-up fighter isn't going to just lay down and take it when he goes to the ground. He's not going to have any "techniques" for that, so he's going to fight dirty. Eyes, throat, ears, joints, fingers, toes, it all becomes open. The groundfighter is also going to be able to do the same. Now, who do you think is going to be better off: a person who is a ground fighter but has never trained in vital points, or a person who is a stand-up fighter but has trained in attacking vital points? It's honestly hard to say. I'd rather not be in that fight to find out. And there are variables which will play, like size, weight, strength, flexibility, stamina, resistance to pain, etc. I went against one guy who was a grappler, and he was trying to show me some things, when I suddenly realized that he was going full strength. I was able to brute-force myself out of anything he put me in. I was a Sr. in high school, he was a freshman, so I'm not saying it was a fair fight, but after hearing him rave about how invincible grappling techniques were, I was a little dissapointed. You sound just the same as him.
Reply:Let me start by saying that I have read most of your questions and a lot of your answers and I can say without doubt, you are a douche-bag.





"Pure MMA" in itself is an oxymoron. How can something comprised of so many different styles be "pure"? Anyway, you, or at least the majority of those who have answered here, confuse an actual street fight with UFC or K1 or something. Many things are possible in a street fight. Maybe you can get a lock on somebody, maybe they could reach your throat or your eye. There are no absolutes.





Something else a lot of people fail to realize or mention is that once you break an arm or a leg, there is no more tension. What that means to you meat heads out there is that THERE IS NO LEVERAGE ON A DISLOCATED BONE!!! If you're willing to take some damage in a life or death situation, don't you think the other person involved would be too? I would sacrifice a limb to take somebody out if my life depended on it.





Lastly, why does nobody ask what would happen to joint locks and wrestling if fighting multiple attackers? Maybe you can take down one thug, get him in an arm bar and dry hump him, but it doesn't mean his cronies wouldn't kick the crap out of you while you do it.





I find you highly amusing with your garbage philosophy, sophomoric humor, and lack of any real understanding of any martial art, "pure" or otherwise. You're a joke. And no, I am not the one who typed those thoughts to begin with since I wouldn't presume to predict a fight.
Reply:http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/gra...
Reply:WOW...that is funny. Tearing out a windpipe is not exactly your easiest technique to get away with. However, like has been said before here, there are certainly disadvantages to be had when you are rolling around rearranging a guys anatomy. First, the UFC and such are not street fights. Try grappling with a bar brawler AND his 3 buddies and you'll soon find that you can certainly take HIM down but his buddies will be kicking you and beating you with pool cues while you are kicking that one guy's butt. What I am trying to say is asking what you think would happen in the UFC if ALL the fighters were put into the ring at once?? Do you think the fights would be 1/2 hour long submission affairs then?? Or, would you be standing up and NOT letting someone get in free shots while you grappled another single fighter??


A second problem is that "the ride" position that you see so very often is crap when the guy can gouge out your eyes. Yes, the position is still very valid and quite defensible, you simply cannot just "rest" there though when someone can poke out your eye easily (and yes poking an eye is REALLY easy).


Simply put, MMA Jujitsu and such is good- VERY good if the student and instructor are good themselves. They are not, however, perfect by any means. Being good- even great- as a MMA fighter does not mean that you are unbeatable or indestructible. Ask the LOSERS of those fights you are watching...


Just my opinion...


Sensei Cox